Motor commutator noise

By Steve Bush 2nd January I am trying to reduce the electrical noise from a 12V 5A brushed dc motor, driven via a pulse width modulator. Much as I would have fun trying various configurations, I would also like to get the thing sorted asap.

So having googled around a bit, and thought a bit, I get the diagram on the right, with 10nF caps in three places, a couple of 15mF chokes, and an RC damper. Part of me is a bit itchy about putting caps straight across the commutator as I was taught that capacitors directly across switch contacts causes erosion — am I wrong in this case? Also, if I put a reverse-parallel Schottky across the motor terminals as well as the one in the modulatorwill that reduce rfi by cutting the current in the connection loop, or increase rfi by messing with the voltage waveform in the leads?

I recently had problems with a noisy motor injecting spikes onto the dc rails of my project. The noise was so bad that it would stop RS communications. I tried lots of solution and nothing really worked until I used a common mode choke inductor 30uH on the supply feed into the motor keeping the track distances as short as possible from the choke to the motor terminals. I have also found Pi filters seem to work okay but not as good as the choke inductor.

I have sometime seen the a pair of capacitor taken from each motor terminal to the metal body of the motor to reduce EMC noise this can be difficult to achieve a good solder joint the large metal body of the motor. Thanks Michael A common-mode choke is interesting and easy! Does than mean that the chassis of your motor is connected to the ground of your system? BTW, I am also having trouble finding a way to connect capacitors to my motor chassis.

Happy New Year zeitghost. Maybe I should just start with 10nF as you suggest. Most impressed that you managed to sell into a big store chain. I was contracted to implement the design and software of the thing, someone else did the rest of it.

Oh, and the siren, which was deafening on the bench, was like a trapped bumble bee when the thing was assembled. Your email address will not be published. By using this website you are consenting to the use of cookies.

Motor commutator noise — help me? Steve Bush.

motor commutator noise

Get Electronics Weekly every day Subscribe. Previous: Brilliant modern app note for venerable LM, and friends. Michael Dalby 6th January at pm. Steve Bush 6th January at pm. The commutation spikes really are very impressive. IIRC there was a reversed diode across the motor too. It worked well enough to get sold in Argos. Have you scoped the spikes across the motor yet? Very impressive. The 3V motor I worked with managed to produce V spikes.

Steve Bush 3rd January at am. Leave a Reply Cancel reply Your email address will not be published.Previous: 8. One major drawback to working with motors is the large amounts of electrical noise they produce. This noise can interfere with your sensors and can even impair your microcontroller by causing voltage dips on your regulated power line.

Large enough voltage dips can corrupt the data in microcontroller registers or cause the microcontroller to reset. The main source of motor noise is the commutator brushes, which can bounce as the motor shaft rotates. This bouncing, when coupled with the inductance of the motor coils and motor leads, can lead to a lot of noise on your power line and can even induce noise in nearby lines.

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There are several precautions you can take to help reduce the effects of motor noise on your system:. Capacitors are usually the most effective way to suppress motor noise, and as such we recommend you always solder at least one capacitor across your motor terminals. Typically you will want to use anywhere from one to three 0. For applications that require bidirectional motor control, it is very important that you do not use polarized capacitors!

For greater noise suppression, you can solder two capacitors to your motor, one from each motor terminal to the motor case as shown in the picture to the right. For the greatest noise suppression, you can solder in all three capacitors: one across the terminals and one from each terminal to the motor case. You can decrease noise by twisting the motor leads so they spiral around each other. Your motor lines can induce currents in nearby signal lines. The closer you can get them to the electronics, the more effective they will be, and generally speaking, the more capacitance you use, the better.

Note that electrolytic caps are polarized, so take care to install them with the negative lead connected to ground and the positive lead connected to VIN, and make sure you choose one with a voltage rating high enough to tolerate the noise spikes you are trying to suppress. A good rule of thumb is to select one that is rated for at least twice your input voltage.

Print Email a friend Feeds. We are operating with a reduced staff, so for critical requirements, including fighting COVID, please contact us so we can identify priorities. Click here for more info. Dealing with Motor Noise Previous: 8. There are several precautions you can take to help reduce the effects of motor noise on your system: 1 Solder capacitors across your motor terminals. Log In.

Motor Noise

Shop Blog Forum Support. Feedback Comments or questions? Products New Products Specials!Two types of noises occur in an electric motor, one is electrical noise and the other is mechanical noise. The causes of remedial treatments for both are discussed in this article. When a motor runs, the commutator switches the direction of the electricity that flows in the windings. Though the system keeps the motor running, the occasional spark occurs between brushes and commutator at the timing of the commutation.

The spark is one of the causes of electrical noise. Especially when the motor starts from its stalled position, comparably higher current, or a stall current, flows into the windings.

Higher current usually causes higher noise. Also, a similar noise happens when. Other factors may be insulation created on the commutator surface, which results in the unstable flow of the electricity. An electrical noise could be reduced by fitting a capacitor or a choke coil to a motor terminal part. However, in order to reduce spark or voltage generated by a spark, these parts are to be fixed to the armature, which enables to eliminate the noise more effectively; fixing parts closer to the armature sometimes contributes to the lower cost policy.

Usually, the noise comes from multiple sources. To identify the root cause and specify the frequency, FFT analyzer is commonly used. Your email address will not be published. Remember Me. Not a member yet? Register now. Want to become an instructor? Are you a member? Login now.An electrical noise could be reduced by fitting a capacitor or a choke coil to a motor terminal part. However in order to reduce spark or voltage generated by spark, these parts are to be fixed to armature, which enables to eliminate the noise more effectively; fixing parts closer to the armature sometimes contributes to the lower cost policy.

Typical methods are. The methods 1 and 2 can work. However, the combination of 1 and 2 is often the most effective way to reduce the electrical noise. In measuring a mechanical noise, the noise level loudness is physically measured by a noise meter. Mechanical noise: 48 dB RMS max. JIS-A characteristic level measured at a point, which is located at a distance of 10cm from a motor-output-shaft-side mounting surface under the following conditions: voltage: 3V, no load, and a shaft horizontal position.

Background noise shall be 26 dB RMS max. These are links for moving within this page Go to the common menu for this website Go to main content Go to footer information. Motor Noise Electrical Noise Various Cause of the Electrical Noise Electrical Noise When a motor runs, the commutator switches the direction of the electricity that flows in the windings.

Though the system keeps the motor running, occasional spark occurs between brushes and commutator at the timing of the commutation. The spark is one of the causes of the electrical noise. Especially when the motor starts from its stalled position, comparably higher current, or a stall current, flows into the windings.

Higher current usually causes higher noise. Also the similar noise happens when 1 brushes stays unstable on the surface of the commutator, 2 the input to the motor is much higher than expected 3 and so on.

Other factor may be an insulation created on the commutator surface, which results in unstable flow of the electricity. Type Definition 1 Brush Noise Frictional sound caused by brushes and commutator. Noise that is radiated from the source to the air and causes interference in TV and a radio.Sojourner Spring Commutator Noise Initial Study.

Some of the risks for this method are if the motor is running constantly, especially for an advanced braking system, a capacitor is usually run across the motor to reduce noise and prevent spikes in the voltage.

The spikes can reduce the lifespan of the motor, the sojourner uses fairly small motors so this affect on the motor is fairly small.

Groschopp Tech Tips - How to Check for a Damaged Armature

This would be a bigger issue if we had bigger motors, but even with small motors we still need to consider it. There are two methods to measure these commutator spikes, Ripple Counting and Transient Counting. Both of these methods require knowledge of the number of poles the motor has.

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Ripple counting is better for a lower number of coils because the ripple has a much stronger effect. Motor speed, temperature, torque, and orientation are all factors for finding these spikes which can make it harder to determine which spikes are due to the external factors creating the excess noise.

Transient Counting can be found all throughout the power supply wire, which means there is no need for a resistor in series to measure the current which Ripple Counting requires. When the commutator loses contact to the brush there is a voltage spike.

For Kick Back Transient the waveform is periodic if the rpm is stable, so one should be able to determine where the brush engages and disengages with the commutator by observing the voltage.

Commutator noise can control speed by looking at spectral components. This method is dependent on a higher amount of inductor coils. Current spectral components are easier to examine due to a larger amplitude in comparison to the DC voltage component.

motor commutator noise

Vcc is the ideal voltage source, Vm is the voltage of the motor and Rs is the resistance. Another notion to consider is that to calculate a way to efficiently translate voltage spikes into RPM data is through commutator poles, and at this time Polulu does not document the number of poles in the Micro Gear line of motors. There are some risks posed when using commutator noise to measure sensor less encoding.

The commutator noise effect is best seen when no diode is used in a circuit to limit voltage spikes. When looking for a sensorless encoding circuit, we looked for a circuit that would be applicable for a Brushed DC motor. A brushed motor holds a set of magnets. Figure 1. Further circuits we will discuss require specific SMD components. Although for our circuit, some adjustments were made.

Below is the commutator noise circuit we built for initial testing.By using our site, you acknowledge that you have read and understand our Cookie PolicyPrivacy Policyand our Terms of Service.

Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts. It only takes a minute to sign up. I am looking for any information that would help me reduce the power rail noise and EMI of DC brush motors. I am building a robot that is powered by 2 x W 24V DC motors.

The noise could be generated by either the brushes commutation or the driver if its PWM. If the PWM supply is causing problems something with narrow spectral contentyou would need a choke between the PWM power rail and your main supply. The capacitor that Nick T mentions is the most important -- directly across the 2 motor leads, mounted directly on the motor.

Some people get further improvements by adding one capacitor per motor lead between that motor lead and the metal case of the motor. A few people go even further, adding ferrite bead "choke" and another capacitor to form a "pi filter" -- see "Nophead's inteference suppressor" and the pages it links to for the ugly "before" o'scope traces and the pretty "after" o'scope photos. Sign up to join this community. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top.

Home Questions Tags Users Unanswered. Methods of filtering noise caused by DC brush motors Ask Question. Asked 10 years ago. Active 9 years, 7 months ago. Viewed 10k times. Thank you in advance. Kamil Zadora Kamil Zadora 2 2 gold badges 4 4 silver badges 9 9 bronze badges. Active Oldest Votes. Nick T Nick T 12k 2 2 gold badges 41 41 silver badges 70 70 bronze badges.

motor commutator noise

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9. Dealing with Motor Noise

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